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windandwaterI'm currently having an argument with someone on Facebook.
(As an aside, you can find me there under my real name, so friend me if you like! Just make sure to leave a message that says you know my from LJ.)
It's not really an argument per se, because those who know me know that when I get angry, I get really cold and overly polite. Because I believe that you should be logical and polite, even if you think the other person is a raging douchebag who should be taken out back and beaten with a flaming baseball bat. But this is... different. See, I friended This Guy mostly because he's another friend's BF/fiancee/whatever, and because I wanted another Farmville neighbor. >_>;;
It soon because clear to me that This Guy is -- and I don't want to offend anyone, but this is my LJ so I'll say whatever I want -- one of those right wing wingnuts. I can't figure it out, but from what I can tell, he's the type that only watchedFaux Fox News and believes every single word Glenn Beck and Bill O'Reilly say. Of course, anyone who knows me knows how I feel about... such a thing. But, whatever, I can deal. After all, my parents are of that bent, and I can ignore them pretty well.
But This Guy.
THIS GUY.
For some reason I couldn't ignore him. I never commented on any of his posts -- the ones where he would link to articles directly on Faux News or other such fare -- I just sort of, scrolled past. Because I am a good internet denizen, and I believe in "DON'T LIKE DON'T READ", which comes in handy during situations like this. But sometimes, in my own FB, I would post a link to an article that would come from the opposite standpoint (that I believe/approve of), just so that I could feel better that both sides were presented when I read my Most Recent News Feed.
However, the issue that brought things to a head and subsequently, this rant, was illegal immigration.
Oh no, I can see some of you guys rolling your eyes already, because you have to know what set me off *cough*Arizona*cough*. This Guy has been regularly been posting articles about what's going on with Arizona, mostly in a "LOLZ STATES RIGHTS LOLZ THE VOTERS VOTED GET RID OF THE ILLEGALS" kind of way. Once again, not surprised considering his "sources".
But today, I posted an article about how a judge has put an injunction on the law, mostly the parts that everyone has a problem with, i.e., the racial profiling stuff and asking people for their papers when they're stopped. I mostly was "YAY!" about the decision. This Guy also posted a link to the article (from a different source but the same AP text), and added a comment to the effect of "I GUESS IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU VOTE. GRRR."
And.
And I couldn't help it.
I commented on his post that I was "glad this country is not South Africa".
He responded with "WHAT DO YOU MEAN IS VOTING A JOKE THERE TOO."
I then explained apartheid, which was completely legal, and yet in no way just, and also involved people being arrested for not having their "papers".
The.............. discussion is continuing.
Now, I'm trying to stay sane and rational about the whole business. I know how very hard it is to get people to change their opinions about ANYTHING once they're set in their viewpoints. After all, no one likes to admit that they've been ignorant, or that they've been wrong. Everyone has their own opinions about everything, and I respect that. However, I greatly dislike people who stay willfully ignorant, and refuse to look at any other viewpoint besides their own, despite any evidence to the contrary.
And... and when I get angry, really, deeply angry, I get hot. My whole body gets hot and I get sort of lightheaded, like all the rage in me is building up until I explode, and it's very hard for me to stay sane and rational.
But I do try very hard.
And immigration is one of those issues that I have very... deep beliefs over. Especially when it runs into the issue of discrimination and racism. I'm not ashamed to say that all of my family is made up of immigrants, at least the "first generation", though myself and most of my cousins were born here in the US. But, we are a family of immigrants who fought and waited a long time to get citizenship. Many of the male members of my family (my father included) actually joined the US Navy for the sole reason of securing citizenship for themselves and their family. I even remember when my mom finally got her citizenship, when I was about 7, which was about 10 years after my Dad first joined the military. Even military wives had to go through the process, and my mom was so proud when she was finally made a citizen.
And, I guess, a lot of my emotion comes from how much I've studied international law. I remember when we were doing the first International Court of Justice simulation for Model United Nations. I was a part of that group of twelve 'Justices' for the week. And our case happened to be one concerning ethnic cleansing and the use of rape as a weapon of war. After you've read hundreds of pages of witness reports and other documents relating to ethnic cleansing, you really start to feel distaste towards people and just how far they will go to justify their own superiority over other based on the color of someone's skin or their ethnicity.
It's... just SO HARD to get people to understand that lots of the time, "laws" aren't made with the best interests of "the people" in mind. Quite a lot of the time, "laws" are made to provide a pretext or thin veneer of legitimacy over acts which are illegal, immoral, and unjust. And it is the point of the judicial branch of the government (or at least our government) to put on the breaks and say: "Hey, whoa, slow down. You're not allowed to do that." Because that's what the legal and judicial system is supposed to do. It's meant to protect those who have no power. It's there to help those who are injured by the "laws", when they otherwise would be trampled on by those who voted the laws into effect in the first place.
And hell yes, I even used miscegenation and Loving v. Virgina to support myself in the FB 'discussion'.
But no.
It's "B'AAWWWWWWW THEY'RE IGNORING THE VOTERS", or "BAWWWWW THE PEOPLE WANT THIS", or "BAWWWW THOSE EVIL JUDGES TAKING AWAY OUR RIGHTS".
Sorry, cookie.
People are stupid. People are frequently stupid and small and self-interested in the worst of ways. Like they said in Men in Black, "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky animals."
I would like to believe in the best of people, that someday people might make decisions based out of logic or doing what's best and healthy for everyone. But I don't see that happening any time soon. If we really left things up to "the people", it would be the Dark Ages all over again, and we'd be crapping in pots.
(As an aside, one of the reasons I dislike the Dark Ages is because they had such terrible plumbing. During the Roman Empire, they had public baths and sanitation and even a version of flush toilets. But once the Dark Ages rolled in, people went back to living in their own filth and taking craps in holes in the ground. Or in pots. Ew.)
Anyway.
I think I'm done ranting.
Let's see if this political post causes another flame war in my LJ. I think I'm running 2-for-2 on that front. I really hate it when that happens. Maybe I should just stick with silly ranting about food and chibi pr0n.
EDIT...
The 'conversation' has ended, even though I could've answered back because This Guy's last line made my brain explode. But I just decided that I'd have more luck squeezing blood from stone.
Now I'm considering putting the whole 'discussion' here for posterity reasons. And to see if anyone thinks I was being too... zesty.
(As an aside, you can find me there under my real name, so friend me if you like! Just make sure to leave a message that says you know my from LJ.)
It's not really an argument per se, because those who know me know that when I get angry, I get really cold and overly polite. Because I believe that you should be logical and polite, even if you think the other person is a raging douchebag who should be taken out back and beaten with a flaming baseball bat. But this is... different. See, I friended This Guy mostly because he's another friend's BF/fiancee/whatever, and because I wanted another Farmville neighbor. >_>;;
It soon because clear to me that This Guy is -- and I don't want to offend anyone, but this is my LJ so I'll say whatever I want -- one of those right wing wingnuts. I can't figure it out, but from what I can tell, he's the type that only watched
But This Guy.
THIS GUY.
For some reason I couldn't ignore him. I never commented on any of his posts -- the ones where he would link to articles directly on Faux News or other such fare -- I just sort of, scrolled past. Because I am a good internet denizen, and I believe in "DON'T LIKE DON'T READ", which comes in handy during situations like this. But sometimes, in my own FB, I would post a link to an article that would come from the opposite standpoint (that I believe/approve of), just so that I could feel better that both sides were presented when I read my Most Recent News Feed.
However, the issue that brought things to a head and subsequently, this rant, was illegal immigration.
Oh no, I can see some of you guys rolling your eyes already, because you have to know what set me off *cough*Arizona*cough*. This Guy has been regularly been posting articles about what's going on with Arizona, mostly in a "LOLZ STATES RIGHTS LOLZ THE VOTERS VOTED GET RID OF THE ILLEGALS" kind of way. Once again, not surprised considering his "sources".
But today, I posted an article about how a judge has put an injunction on the law, mostly the parts that everyone has a problem with, i.e., the racial profiling stuff and asking people for their papers when they're stopped. I mostly was "YAY!" about the decision. This Guy also posted a link to the article (from a different source but the same AP text), and added a comment to the effect of "I GUESS IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU VOTE. GRRR."
And.
And I couldn't help it.
I commented on his post that I was "glad this country is not South Africa".
He responded with "WHAT DO YOU MEAN IS VOTING A JOKE THERE TOO."
I then explained apartheid, which was completely legal, and yet in no way just, and also involved people being arrested for not having their "papers".
The.............. discussion is continuing.
Now, I'm trying to stay sane and rational about the whole business. I know how very hard it is to get people to change their opinions about ANYTHING once they're set in their viewpoints. After all, no one likes to admit that they've been ignorant, or that they've been wrong. Everyone has their own opinions about everything, and I respect that. However, I greatly dislike people who stay willfully ignorant, and refuse to look at any other viewpoint besides their own, despite any evidence to the contrary.
And... and when I get angry, really, deeply angry, I get hot. My whole body gets hot and I get sort of lightheaded, like all the rage in me is building up until I explode, and it's very hard for me to stay sane and rational.
But I do try very hard.
And immigration is one of those issues that I have very... deep beliefs over. Especially when it runs into the issue of discrimination and racism. I'm not ashamed to say that all of my family is made up of immigrants, at least the "first generation", though myself and most of my cousins were born here in the US. But, we are a family of immigrants who fought and waited a long time to get citizenship. Many of the male members of my family (my father included) actually joined the US Navy for the sole reason of securing citizenship for themselves and their family. I even remember when my mom finally got her citizenship, when I was about 7, which was about 10 years after my Dad first joined the military. Even military wives had to go through the process, and my mom was so proud when she was finally made a citizen.
And, I guess, a lot of my emotion comes from how much I've studied international law. I remember when we were doing the first International Court of Justice simulation for Model United Nations. I was a part of that group of twelve 'Justices' for the week. And our case happened to be one concerning ethnic cleansing and the use of rape as a weapon of war. After you've read hundreds of pages of witness reports and other documents relating to ethnic cleansing, you really start to feel distaste towards people and just how far they will go to justify their own superiority over other based on the color of someone's skin or their ethnicity.
It's... just SO HARD to get people to understand that lots of the time, "laws" aren't made with the best interests of "the people" in mind. Quite a lot of the time, "laws" are made to provide a pretext or thin veneer of legitimacy over acts which are illegal, immoral, and unjust. And it is the point of the judicial branch of the government (or at least our government) to put on the breaks and say: "Hey, whoa, slow down. You're not allowed to do that." Because that's what the legal and judicial system is supposed to do. It's meant to protect those who have no power. It's there to help those who are injured by the "laws", when they otherwise would be trampled on by those who voted the laws into effect in the first place.
And hell yes, I even used miscegenation and Loving v. Virgina to support myself in the FB 'discussion'.
But no.
It's "B'AAWWWWWWW THEY'RE IGNORING THE VOTERS", or "BAWWWWW THE PEOPLE WANT THIS", or "BAWWWW THOSE EVIL JUDGES TAKING AWAY OUR RIGHTS".
Sorry, cookie.
People are stupid. People are frequently stupid and small and self-interested in the worst of ways. Like they said in Men in Black, "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky animals."
I would like to believe in the best of people, that someday people might make decisions based out of logic or doing what's best and healthy for everyone. But I don't see that happening any time soon. If we really left things up to "the people", it would be the Dark Ages all over again, and we'd be crapping in pots.
(As an aside, one of the reasons I dislike the Dark Ages is because they had such terrible plumbing. During the Roman Empire, they had public baths and sanitation and even a version of flush toilets. But once the Dark Ages rolled in, people went back to living in their own filth and taking craps in holes in the ground. Or in pots. Ew.)
Anyway.
I think I'm done ranting.
Let's see if this political post causes another flame war in my LJ. I think I'm running 2-for-2 on that front. I really hate it when that happens. Maybe I should just stick with silly ranting about food and chibi pr0n.
EDIT...
The 'conversation' has ended, even though I could've answered back because This Guy's last line made my brain explode. But I just decided that I'd have more luck squeezing blood from stone.
Now I'm considering putting the whole 'discussion' here for posterity reasons. And to see if anyone thinks I was being too... zesty.
